Where will the cuts be made?

You make some good points but there is still plenty to debate about. This being the most cohesive group you talk about was even more cohesive in the 94′ world cup, they played a lot together in the 93′ copa america and that team of Aspe, Ramon Ramirez, Suarez, Zague was around forever.

Lavolpe has many people sold on his system but interestingly enough he does not have any hardware other than one title with Atlante to show for his system.

Menotti’s system was very different because the modern game is totally different so that might be a stretch to compare but it’s obvious he is using and inundating Mexico with his Argentine teachings.

I think the bigger philosophical debate is what is Mexican soccer and what style is traditional and best suited?

Nobody has the clear cut answers so Lavolpe has been given the green light. It seems impossible to imagine a team such as this Mexican team, to win a world cup with 6-8 midfielders so short in stature and short on speed.

As for the players I mentioned, there is doubting they would have given Mexico more firepower, and personality on the ball, the proof is in the numbers. Other than Lozano and Arellano none of the midfielders are all that good of goal scorers. None really is in good form. Sinha has his moments but he looks like his fitness is questionable. Pardo looks a step slow and occassionaly can blast one as can Torrado but neither are attackers. Luisito Perez is to me the best of the bunch and I cringe at that thought.

Landin, Ochoa, Sandoval, Blanco, and Bofo will be missed.

Posted from  United States

Don’t forget that Lavolpe also likes to switch his midfielders so that they have better angles to shoot with their favored foot.

As far as players being short on stature and speed, well, that really hasn’t changed. That is why I was hoping for Alberto Medina to be on the list. He does have speed.

Everybody has critics, and Lavolpe is no different. But the players all seem to be united behind him.

Both you guys bring some ilucidating insight to the blog. I enjoy reading your comments.

Posted from  United States

Actually, most pundits also give him one of the Toluca titles, he left just 2 weeks prior to the team being crowned champion to start his work with the national team.

He also reached the finals with Atlas and kept them in contention several times. His problem there was the lack of experience in that group of players.

Nobody in Mexico expects him to win the whole thing, but if he can place Mexico in the best of 8, most people will be satisfied. As long as he can show a level similar to the Confederations Cup from last year, Mexicans will be satisfied. By the way, last year’s group had most of the 1st teamers that made this list too, showing that this team may have a similar level of cohesiveness to the group from 94).

Speed is important, but not a deciding factor. Otherwise, teams from Africa and Asia should have won the World Cup by now.

The problem with Mexican soccer is there is too much to debate about and too many monumental disasters and frustrating moments to forget.

One way or another Lavolpe will make history. He is making his bed. Do not forget his system has proven to be a disaster at times, such as the Copa America where Mexico celebrated like they won the world cup when they beat Argentian 1-0 and then got ousted and blasted by Brazil.

The main issue will come down to the same old question. Assuming Mexico qualifies to the second round, can they get past either Argentina, Ivory Coast, Serbia or Holland. Lavolpe will get his chance.

Team speed is a vital component of any world cup winning squad. Brazil speaks for itself, but France in 98 had some burners as well, it is the modern game.

Posted from  United States

There is another part of the equation, just as important as speed, and that is endurance.

If you are able to keep things close in the first half with a slower, but more well conditioned team, the speed diferential will not be as noticeable in the second half.

That is the main advantage of the Mexican side. Mexican soccer players have one of the best conditioning anywhere. The pace of Mexican soccer, while not being blazing fast, has always been constant and sustained. We will never have the conditions to be the fastest team out there, and we have never been known to be like that (except maybe for Zague), but we sure as heck can keep pressure for 90 minutes. Ask the ultra blazing fast Netherlands who couldn’t keep the pace and got themselves tied after being 2-0 in favor, or the Germans that same year (or 1986 for that matter), who one more by determination than anything else. And seriously, how many fast people do we have at a National Team level? I’m sorry, but as fast as Medina is, he showed little to nothing in the National Side, and he is one of the few who has that blazing speed you talk about.

The way this team works is with speed from the wingers, and we have people like Castro there, who have great speed and acceleration.

And regarding Brazil, keep also in mind that Lavolpe also defeated them 3 times. In fact, in the last 8 official matches, Mexico has won 5, tied 2 and lost only 1 (in that Copa America, where Lavolpe was still forming the team).

Even though we beat Brazil 3 times I don’t think we should get too carried away.Most of those Brazilian teams were “C” teams at most. I really hope we are able to play as good as we did in the Confederations Cup.I also believe its time for our team to step it up, enough of awesome 1st round playing and 2nd round heartbreaks(man I still wake up sweating some nights remembering that June 12 in Korea), I believe we have enough to make it to the round of 8.If not just take Atlante to South Africa.

Posted from  United States

Well, let’s put that idea of your to the test…

the team we beat in the Gold Cup 2003 twice, had the following team:

Gomes
Negri
Adriano
Alex
André Bahia
Luisao
Coelho
Maicon
Diego
Fabríco
Júlio Baptista
Paulinho
Robinho
Thiago Motta
Ewerthon
Kaká
Nadson
Nilmar

The one that won the confederations cup 2005 (and which we defeated, AGAIN) had the following people

1 DIDA (GK)
2 MAICON
3 LUCIO
4 ROQUE JUNIOR
5 EMERSON
6 GILBERTO
7 ROBINHO
8 KAKA
9 ADRIANO
10 RONALDINHO
11 ZE ROBERTO
12 MARCOS (GK)
13 CICINHO
14 JUAN
15 LUISAO
16 LEO
17 GILBERTO SILVA
18 JUNINHO PERNAMBUCANO
19 RENATO
20 JULIO BAPTISTA
21 RICARDO OLIVEIRA
22 EDU
23 GOMES (GK)

I see a lot of the same names in both, with 2 big exceptions: Dida and Ronaldinho (both of whom we had also defeated back in the Confederations Cup in 1999, by the way.)

Am I say it we are better than Brazil? Not really. I’m not a fool. Do I think we found a way to negate their skills with good teamwork? Absolutely.

If Brazil’s A team is #1 in the world, then their C team is #5. Nevertheless, I am sure many teams would like to have the record Mexico has had over Brazil in their last few meetings.

Posted from  United States

Rene, nice blog. I onlye disagree with you in two things:

1. Since we only use 2 strikers, Lavolpe will never go out with a 4-3-3 or 5-2-3, if one of them got hurt, we still have two on the bench (Probably Kikín and Bravo).

2. Some of us do expecto Mexico to win the whole thing. I mean its almost anyone shot out there in a World Cup.

I can definitly say that:

Germany, England, Sweden, Argentina, Holand, Mexico, Paraguay, Italy, Chec Republic, Brazil, Croacia, Japan, France, South Korea, Spain and Ucraine ARE legimate contenders to the World cup. They CAN win in Gemany.

And the rest but: Trinidad y Tobago, Iran, Angola, Australia, Togo and Saudi Arabia, are in a posibility to win the cup. Otherwise, why do you go. I mean, why would Mexico, Spain, Ucraine, Holland o Chec Republic go to a world cup, but to win it?

Mexico has a good chanse, as they had 4 years ago, I mean all we had to do was beat USA, Germany and Brazil. 3 games, tree oponents we’ve beaten before. Did we lack ability? NO, did we lack experience? Absolutly NOT.

So do we have a shot at the cup this year? YES. We are head of group D, we are considered by FIFA one of the best 8 teams in the World. We are the 4th team with more world cup apearences after Brasil, Italy and Argentina. We have a great team and a good Coach, in an easy group with a tough second round match waiting for us. What do we need? what do the players need? mentality, that, will take us tho the world cup final.

By the way “Aclantista” if there is a nation in the world that can beat Brazil that’s Mexico, we may fall to the USA, Argentina, Corea, Belgium, but every time we face the best team in the world, I think we have a better chance to defeat them.

Mexico CAN win the World Cup.

Posted from  Mexico

Luis Carlos,

don’t get me wrong, I was not implying that we would work on a 3 striker mode at all. What I’m saying is that a World Cup is unusually hard on players. They play more matches more often, and they usually come from grueling league play to begin with.

You need to have enough people to do refreshers fi the team is winning the match by a good margin so they can keep the first teamers fresh for the following match (usually 2 or 3 days later). If you lose one player and you only have 4 in that particular rotation, then you will be in trouble. From the tactical standpoint, you not only lose whatever skills that player had, but you pretty much have only one player to be the substitute, which means you are less likely to keep at least one of the strikers out, and that means that all 3 of them will have a larger workload.

As for the rest of your blog, unlike you, I’m just moderately optimistic. I will be happy enough if we make it to the final 8… especially if we consider that we will most likely face Argentina or the Netherlands in the second round (if we actually get past the 1st round like everyone predicts).

One last thing, if Mexico plays well, as expected and qualifies to the second round, they also could face a surprise Ivory Coast team which would be a difficult match-up, perhaps more so than Holland or Argentina if that is possible.

They have some very tested interesting players and we match up horribly with them because they are big, fast, and physical. Think of Kolo Toure, Eboue, Kalou, Drogba just to name a few.

Whoever we play, Lavolpe’s conservative selection and formations will be tested. For the record, Africa and Asia has never won the world cup but neither has Concacaf so the point is nobody should be underestimated.

I really like your point Luis Carlos, this world cup is up in the air, so a top 8 finish is small step that almost tastes like a disaster. Mexico should aim high, at least a top four finish, Turkey has done it and so did Korea, so it is possible for a tradition rich nation such as Mexico.

Posted from  United States

Just in:

Chivas won vs. Sao Paulo in Morumbi 2-1, just like they did in Guadalajara.

Aclantista: Both teams were using their A teams!

Well, I am not a huge Chivas fan but I am enjoying them making me look prophetic.

Good for them, and good for Mexican football.

Posted from  United States

Thanks for your comments. I do think we should aim high, and of course, at the same time be moderately optimistic.

I just wanted to point out the: “We can win it all” panorama.

And I am not sure, but just to end the 3-4 striker situation, I am not sure, but I think it’s not possible to bring more than 4 strikers, since the 23 player roster is divided in 3 goalies, 8 defenders and 8 midfielder, and 4 strikers.

Of course to your favor La Volpe coudl have named Cuauhtemoc or Bofo, or whoever as a midfielder, and in a given situation use him as a striker. I was just wondering if anybody knows if ther is a certain quota for a specific position.

thanks, have a nice chiva day.

Posted from  Mexico

Speaking of people being cut, Lavolpe said yesterday that if the MLS does not allow Suarez to integrate with the team on April 12, he would be forced to cut Suarez, since he want to prepare him to play at the same pace and under the same parameters than the others, and he can’t do that if Claudio isn’t there right from the start.

So far, the MLS is denying Femefut the chance to use Suarez, arguing (and rightfully so) that Villareal, Barcelona and Bolton are not letting their players go sooner, and given those conditions, they do not feel obligated to do so either.

In other news, the reason why “Conejo” Perez was not in the final list, other than Ochoa being in better shape right now, is because Lavolpe wants this World Cup to be Oswaldo’s and does not want another experienced goalkeeper to become a distraction.

Don’t get me wrong I would love for Mexico to actually win the whole thing but I’m still not sold in their psyche.I’m really hoping that Lavolpe helped the team develop their mentality.There is no question in my mind that our team has talent and that we can compete pretty much against anybody as everybody proved me that we beaten the real Brazil.My big concerns for our team to advance to the knockout stages are all the mental errors they tend to start doing when there is a moment of pressure.Even our team captain Rafa Marquez is known for losing his cool and making mistakes when we’re down just remember he got kicked out againts the U.S 4 years ago or how about penalty kicks? everybody feels pretty much doomed if we have to decide a game by pks.Again I’m not trying to be pessimistic here but we’ll have to beat either Argentina,Ivoty Coast or a strong European team in order to advance.I’m really hoping el Tricolor proves me wrong but until then I have my reservations.

Posted from  United States

Aclantista:

This group has several things in its favor:

1. A lot of the younger players have participated in several international matches with their teams already (especially the guys from Chivas), and they have proven they can beat any team any time. That means they won’t necessarily feel “inferior”.

2. Lavolpe, unlike other head coaches before him, has won a World Cup.

3. The under 17 group proved that Mexico can win it all and do so in foreign soil.

4. This seems to be a very tightly knitted group. Most of these guys have been playing together for 3 years now, or have played for Lavolpe before, therefore knowing what he wants out of them. Remember that Aguirre and Lapuente had to scramble to get a team together for their respective World Cups since they arrived late in the process.

So of all the Mexican National sides in history, this one has one of the better chances to succeed, not only because this is one of the most technically gifted groups we have had, but because there is a lot of work and positive circumstances behind it.

Rene:

1.If only Lavolpe had take the Chivas that participated in all the goals yesterday: Bofo, Martinez, and Santana. Coincidence they sentenced the Brazilians. They have size, speed and game changing ability and are not the drone midfielders Lavolpe likes.

2.To say Lavolpe won a world cup is a stretch. It is more like he was around a world cup winning squad. 3rd choice keeper hardly qualifies one as world cup tested, but it does allow you to put that on your resume your whole life.

3.The under 17 group was a totally different team, no similarities w/ the big boys at all, but they did have the mentality to win, which was instilled in them by their brilliant coach Chucho Ramirez, who is Mexican and next in line to appy once Lavolpe exits this world cup.

4.To suggest that Lavolpe should be credited with this group is a stretch, he failed to call Kikin over and over again until the death threats started pouring in b/c he was prejudiced to his connection with Hugo, and he used this same strategy with Bofo, Blanco, and others to exclude them. The guys is a first rate prick but he is the coach and he will have a his chance to prove his worth just like the players as Aclatista said

Posted from  United States

Come on Baller… Bofo was called several times by Lavolpe and maybe only once was he really on. Just like Osorno and Juan Pablo Rodriguez, he has not shown he can take the pressure of being a player for the National team. Santana is much too irregular. Sure, he had an on game yesterday, but he is hardly even one of the best people in Chivas. The only one I think should have been there is Martinez. Unfortunately, there are two things to consider:

a) He plays in a position where there are several other who do it well. I think Castro is faster and a good, brave defender (if only he could learn how to do crossings properly).

b) He plays for Chivas. I have this feeling that there was some sort of agreement with Vergara as to how many people they could take away from the team. 5 is already quite a big deal.

2. OK, let me rephrase that: Lavolpe was part of a winning World Cup team, was a part of the process and got to see how it was done. Dismissing that experience as just a resume-filler seems wrong to me. It DOES count for something more than that.

3. I’m not talking about similarities there, I’m talking about the overall feeling that big things can be achieve. See as “leading by example” if you will. They are proof that it can be done (and yes, I agree that Chucho Ramirez would be an awesome candidate for the Absolute team).

4. Let’s see:

Marquez: Coached by Lavolpe
Pardo: Coached by Lavolpe
Oswaldo Sanchez: Coached by Lavolpe
Chiquis Garcia: Coached by Lavolpe (and please, leave the family thing behind for a second)
Pineda: Not coached by him but brought to the team when he was not even a regular in his team
Borgetti: Coached by Lavolpe
Salcido: Brought by Lavolpe when he was not even a regular in his team

That’s a lot of people. And seriously, if I had Hugo attack me the way he was back then, I would be weary of bringin in player who could potential be disruptive to my team.

Yes, La Volpe is not exactly the most likeable person, but dismissing him is not the right approach. At the time he was brought in, he was by far the best option. Huga was unproven, Lapuente didn’t want the team back, Aguirre decided to leave, Bianchi didn’t know the players nor the country. So who were they supposed to name???

Don’t let your personal feelings cloud your judgement.

Thank you for making my point. Lavolpe is LUCKY to have Mexico and not the other way around. Aside from whatever way people feel about Lavolpe, he has been given time and room to work, perhaps more so than any other previous coaches in recent history in international football. Whether that proves to be decisive and puts Mexico over the top in a second round game and maybe beyond, good for him and good for Mexico.

Personally, I am objective and will ultimately measure his success as a coach with the results the team achieves in Germany. Nothing else, and certainly not his alleged track record of genius. Mexico and Lavolpe will ge measured by their finish.

One could argue that he is a good coach as you have done repeatedly quite well, unfortunately, since he does not have a long list of championships we can only rely on conjecture and player development. Reminds one of the Larry Brown syndrome, where people swear he is a good teacher of the game and yet he struggles sometimes as well. Hopefully, Lavolpe will prove his worth once and for all even Larry got a ring finally.

For the record, if any other coach of any other national team side would have put on such an immature side-show-on, and insulted the media and fan-base at times they would have long gone. The proof will be in the pudding with his results. After all do not forget Lavolpe is LUCKY to have Mexico and not the other way around.

Posted from  United States

You have yet to answer the question:

was there any other plaussible choice?

Don’t forget another thing: he is the FIRST coach to do a full 4 year term since Trelles did it for WC 66. That is 40 years. It is a miracle this guy has survived this long, and it was due in part by his results: 1 Golden Cup win, ease reaching the WC finals and a great showing in the Confederations Cup. If you don’t think that is enough, then show me anyone who has done better in a Mexican side. Even Bora, who had Mexico qualify to WC 98 in first place and had a decent Copa America 97 didn’t make it.

I believe both sides are lucky, quite frankly. Lavolpe because he got a lot of freedom from the club owners, and the National Team because we have a coach who has been able to keep going even though the media has at times been vicious with the guy. How many guys have resigned for less? Lapuente did it twice, Mejia Baron did it after a luke warm showing in Copa America 95. Aguirre was probably the only one who had it justified, because he got a juicy contract in Europe waiting for him.

I’m not trying to be a Lavolpe apologist, but seriously, I respect the man for standing up to his coaching ideas and keeping the boat afloat after so many vicious attacks.

Lavolpe the victim. Wow! That is a new one for the world. Lavolpe the victim, never would have guessed that one. All those media attacks were never brought on by his unprofessional antics and statements, such as his famous, “there is no talent in Mexico.” Lavolpe would not have even survived with his sideshow in Argentina, they would have canned him long ago.

First, unless your Argetinian, there is always a Mexican who can do the job as well and is just as talented. It is even in the numbers, 100-130 million people trumps all Latin American nations except Brazil.

I do no mean to offend you but my point is there are many, many hundreds of Mexican football coaches/minds of the game that are talented and could have done as good a job, they just do not get the opportunity because of politics and compadrismo. Sure Lavolpe has talent, but I think the public is correct in taking a wait an see approach before they build him a statue. You make it sound like Marquez, and Pardo were handpicked off of some dirt road and taught the game from scratch. Obviously it was scouting by Atlas, and youth coaches. Lavolpe most likely saw them as already developing players.

Some great football minds have even emmigrated from Mexico to the United States because of lack of opportunities.

I can think of a few names. Alfredo Tena, Vucetich, Mario Carillo, Leonardo Cuellar. Could one really say with certainty that given 4yrs they wouldnt have done a good job qualifying the team? Again, the bottom line will be if Lavolpe can get help get Mexico past the second round and beyond.

Posted from  United States

Ok… let’s clear up two things:

a) I’m not saying that Lavolpe has been free of blame on this, but we also have to admit that he has been attacked more than other coaches. Hugo Sanchez has been on his case since he was named because Hugo wanted the job, and a good chunk of the media sided with the guy for a couple of years. I’m just saying that while being controversial and sometimes an ass, he did not deserve to be attacked like that.

B) Those names you give are suspect at best, especially since you are not considering the timing of it all:

Alfredo Tena was already burnt out. Yes, he has won 2 championships, but the last one was really set up by Aguirre in Pachuca (he basically used the same squad that won 2 years before and reached the finals 6 months before being hired). He has been fired from every other position he has held ever since because of poor results.

Mario Carillo was unproven back then. He had yet to have that wonderful unbeaten streak with America. The only thing he had to show for were a couple of instances where he had made the playoffs with Puebla, and how he let Puebla’s owner to dry by resigning without any reason, twice.

Vucetich, while having a wonderful record, was not hot at the time Lavolpe was named to coach the team (his last championship had been with Tecos in 1994). He would however make Pachuca champion again about a year into Lavolpe’s tenure. I don’t dislike the idea of having him coach the team after Lavolpe is gone, BUT just like with Bora, I think that his style of play (defensive) will make both media and followers ask for dismissal rather fast.

As for Leo Cuellar, he is also unproven. I don’t care how much you like women’s soccer, but it is not the same as coaching men, and he has not coached in Mexico. Heck, I don’t even think he would like to coach the team to begin with.

The thinking when Lavolpe was hired was that you had a guy who won a championship, was on the verge of winning a second one with Toluca (that 2002 Championship is virtually his, as he left the team 2 weeks before they got crowned), had taken Atlas to a final, and had all of his teams (except America) make it to the playoffs year in and year out). Seriously… at the time, he had a slam dunk case in his favor.

Remember: timing is EVERYTHING.

Just in: Lavolpe gave away the six players who are fighting for those final 3 positions:

Claudio or Huiqui, ‘Cabrito’ or Lozano, Israel or Torrado

I’m surprised about Torrado. I thought he was in regardless because of his experience in European soccer.

[...] Following in Mexico’s footsteps, Beenie this week named his provisional World Cup squad. And like his CONCACAF counterpart (who named 26 players), Beenhakker chose to name one man extra. The pyschological pressure created by this tactic seems to be working wonders for the Warriors. This week, Scott Sealy scored for the Kansas City Wizards, Cornell Glenn took his new team to victory, notching a double for LA Galaxy and Stern John helped ensure Coventry’s victory over Luton with his goal. [...]

Posted from  United States