The next steps

John:

Hugo would not accept Beenhaker for one reason: Beenhaker was the coach who relegated him to the bench during his Real Madrid stint. In fact, I’m almost certain it was Beenhaker who helped made the decision to push Hugo out of the team. I still like the choice though.

As far as Chucho Ramirez goes… I have thought about it a little further, and I think we should let him work with more youngsters for the time being. Think about it… if he can bring up two or three quality U-17 teams together, we would have a constant influx of talents for years. Look at Pekerman as good road map. It took Pekerman almost 10 years of coaching the younger groups before he was given the shot for Head Coach. I think Chucho Ramirez is a more logical choice for 2014. At that time, someone like Giovanni or Vela will be 26 or 27… at the peak of their potential.

Holy smokes… there is a very strong rumour floating around in Mexico about the whole process towards 2010:

1. Alberto de la Torre would remain president, as it seems most owners like the guy, but still want Decio de Maria, as Secretary General, to keep shadowing him.

2. Luis Fernando Tena would become the new head coach (which makes sense when you think that he has his brother work as his assistant, so that would mean that Alfredo Tena would remain as headcoach of Las Aguilas).

3. Lavolpe would become general director of National Teams, worried more about creating training programs for all the national teams (something similar to Pekerman’s previous position in Argentina). Needless to say, that position has little to no contact with the press.

4. The U-15, U-17 and U-19 would be under Chucho Ramirez, and there has even been some names mentioned as possible assistants:

Jose Luis Gonzalez China, Victor “Harlem” Medina, Francisco Ramirez, Daniel Guzman, and even Mario Carrillo to take care of the U-23 (he was already offered the position during Lavolpe’s stint as head coach).

The U-21 and U-23 teams would fall under the umbrella of the Head Coach for the National Team.

http://www.oem.com.mx/esto/notas/n2406.aspx

I will need to analyze this one further before making a better assestment.

I don’t like Luis Fernando Tena. He stinks too much of Ojitos Meza.

Posted from  United States

On another note. I like that the owners are being rational about it and are willing to have some continuity in our football with Lavolpe as Director of National teams. I’d applaud that move.

Posted from  United States

Tarkaba:

It is hard to say. This guy (Luis Fernando Tena) has studied abroad more than almost any other coach in Mexico whenever he has been unemployed. I recall him attentding courses and seminar with team like Real Madrid and Ajax before.

If you think about it, neither Mejia Baron nor Lavolpe had too much international experience prior to coaching the team either. I still root for a more savvy international coach, but if that were to happen, then this structure would not hold ground. And obviously, you would have the same idiots harping about Mexican coaches being as capable of doing a good job, and how we are malinchistas, etc. etc.

LF Tena is not from Meza’s school (so to say) but form Lapuente’s. I’m sure he´s got a job well done at every team he’s coached (and certainly this time won’t be the exception).
My main worry, though, is not the head coach but the production of players. I strongly agree with all of you pleading for a reduction of foreign player on the pitch. Someone on another thread has just pointed how the lack of reliable strikers hurt us this time. 8 or 9 out of the 10 top strikers are foreign. It seems that some owners, coaches, and top administrators have found a gold mine in all this issue of players trading.
I hope they’ll come to senses and realize that players production is an even richer and long lasting mine

Posted from  Mexico

Jesus Martinez, president of the football club Pachuca (current champion in the Mexican League), in a thinly veiled way said that Lavolpe was out (no surprise there), but assured reporters the next head coach would be Mexican.

One interesting statistic: only two teams in the quarter-finals have a foreign head coach (Portugal and England)

Rene,

I guess I just wanna play it safe. I know Lavolpe didn’t have much international experience before becoming our coach and that’s exactly why I’d like to see Benhakker, Scolari, Parreira. A proven succesful coach and not just another experiment.

Also, and this is a guajiro dream, the FMF should start putting together a plan for the 2018 or 2022 World Cup to be organized in Mexico with Javier Aguirre as our coach.

Posted from  United States

John:

1. Totally agree, I think this is posible.

2. I don’t think the owners will agree, the only reason why Vergara and the owners are in Europe looking for transactions is because they’re waiting for the money. Show them the money!!! By the way they’re asking 8 million for Guardado.

3. Any of the later 3, Fil, Leo or Chucho. I don’t hate Hugo but I’ll rather see him in REal Madrid (yeah right).

4. I am positive that’s what Mexico is going to do.

Posted from  Mexico

Great points. Here is the Big-Baller analysis.

It seems like we are all down but seem optimistic as well, everybody I talk do in daily life that is a fan of futbol, regardless of cultural background, all of them resoundingly say Mexico was awesome in that game against Argentina.

With that in mind there are three different theories people are considering and that need to be analyzed. The three paths lead to different results and different windows of destiny.

On one hand: is Mexico going for a World Cup Championship or is Mexico going for a quarter-final, or semi-final every World Cup. These are different things to consider. It all very complicated by the fact Mexico outplayed a World Champion favorite and serious contender.

Theories:

1.Mexico is still missing something to take the next step and until then is not a super power. It could be a savior, or top coach, or top striker, or a measly lucky goal here and there. Call it luck, call it officiating, but Mexico is missing something.

or

2.Mexico needs to stay the course and because it is progressing consistantly albeit small steps but steady nevertheless, it is progress. The international success is bound to come. Copa America and Libertadores, and World Youth Cups are starting to seem very attainable every time Mexico compete. The steady as a rock progress was part Lavolpe and Federation and is an outcome of steady planning and vision.

or

3.Clean house, and rebuild not only players and coaches, but federation types and philosiphies. It could mean going Mexican coaches, it could mean briging all youth teams, or it may be focus on all youth club programs and produce a few more for 2010. Basically: De-Lavolpize the whole thing.

Just something to consider.

Posted from  United States

To follow up. We all remember the great Argentina game and we remember who well they played.

A few things stick in my craw that I can’t shake:

1.Why in the HECK did it take so long to see Guardado and Gringo Castro, and Ramon on the field at the same time through warm-ups and friendlies etc… We only got to see them and Kikin and Brogetti for one stinking game all World Cup! It was our best game and it was our last game.

2.Why the heck did we take Chiquis, Suarez. And why the heck did some players not performing well get free passes to play the whole game: Pineda, Pardo, Mendes sometimes, Franco.

3.Why in the heck after 4 yrs of planning it seemed like we did not have a set starting line-up. And why the heck did we not have set-super subs and defined roles after 4yrs of planning.

4.How the heck can we plat awesome like Mexico played against Argentina and then Mexico cannot figure out how to score against Angola? Is it because this teams is as jeckyl and hide as this coach??? If Mexico wins the group D would things have been different.

5.Was the fact Mexico did not win the group a contagious symptom of Lavolpe’s nervousness. Rafa would never do something so sill in a million years as that Portugal game but when it was on the line he did, why??? Bravo shanks it??? Why??

6.Why does it seem when Mexico plays friendlies in the USA, that Mexico are not giving it their all and are those games improving Mexico’s team.

7.Why do some people feel it is not ok to criticise constructively the national team and why is it ok for a foreigner to tell the truth.

Posted from  United States

Here are your answers:

1. Because their speed would be an asset against a slower rival (Argentina) than against speedy teams. A theory of mine (as crazy as it may sound) is that he did not want to tire them and start using them once the knock out phase began… have some fresh legs, so to speak.

2. Hey… almost all teams keep a couple of people that will not play any minutes in the World Cup, or next to none. Remember Garcia Aspe in 2002? They are brought in more as a stabilizing factor, having a seasoned World Cup veteran that can share experiences and be called upon in as a last resort (plus I think in the case of Suarez that he would have played had Mexico been winning against Argentina with less than 20 minutes to go).

3. It seems to me you don’t know La Volpe. He has never had a set lineup… not now, not in Atlas, not in Chivas, Not in America and not in Toluca. He always changed players according to the scheme of the rival (one of the reasons why he was so successful against Argentina. Tevez admitted that Mexico had shown so many lineups they could not anticipate which lineup they would come up with next and prepare for it).

4. Well… the rival also counts. Mexico has always had a big issue with teams who are strong and play to defend themselves. Even in the days of Blanco and Luis Hernandez, it was a battle to score against the likes of Jamaica, T&T and the sort. In fact, during that time, it was the first time we tied against them in a qualifying round. So there’s no point in blaming La Volpe for that one, that is an endemic problem that has been a problem for a decade or so (and if you look at the world cup, it happens all around… just ask Brazil against Australia, or England against T&T).

5. Not only La Volpe’s. Think about it for a second… if you have all the press asking you just how vital the match is for your cause, wouldn’t you at least feel a bit nervous? I know I would.

6. This is an easy one: specially the ones near the World Cup… to avoid injuries.

7. Well… depends on what you define as constructive. Let’s say… Valdano tells you that Mexico has gone through great strides and we should evaluate according to where we were 10 years ago and to say that while not ready yet for primetime, we definitely have made a name for ourselves. And then you have Javier Vergara saying that this process was a waste of time and we have to start from scratch because absolutely nothing was learned… who would you agree with? I would agree with Valdano.

It is not the same to say “this was a mediocre team” than saying “this team underachieved”. The first statement implies that the people within the team didn’t put any effort, nor had the quality to do better. The second statement says more was expected of the team, and they can do better. Most of what I have heard from the news in Mexico has been the former, and most of the stuff I read from foreigners is the latter.

The only people so far that I have heard being constructive in Mexico have been Ojitos Mesa and Luis Fernando Tena.

Here we go…

Hugo already stated that he will take el Tri to the quarterfinals at least in 2010 (he probably learned from the Lavolpe fiasco, because he used to say he would make Mexico World Champion).

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/mundial/4896.html

Good points Rene. I do not agree with all of them. Particular #1.

1. It is easy to second guess Lavolpe although maybe not fair because they almost beat Argentina. But after seeing Guardado, Castro and Ramon, it was clear that was our best lineup. Kikin in there as well. Who knows, maybe Mexico wins the group maybe they don’t. Maybe by them all playing together for the first time it did cause Argentina problems and it did motivate the Mexican players and made them hungrier.

2.It is a travesty that Chiquis went and Bofo, Landin, and others were left off. I am as stubborn as Lavolpe on this issue. Sure it happens on every team, but let’s call it how it is, favoritism and nepotism. In the long run it could hurt the squad for the next world cup.

I think we need to keep in mind my earlier post on philosophy.

My take is that if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The problem is Lavolpe has burned so many bridges, with moves like “Chiquis-Suarez gate” and so forth that I dont know if I people will be allow for it.

Rene: don’t take Vergara too seriously. While I don’t personally know the guy, he is good for Mexican Futbol. Chivas has made mistakes but in the end they have really a top class youth system and Chivas USA is basically a gold mine for future players for both the USA and Mexico. Saprissa was saved by him. Seriously, he’s a lot of talk but he can really see the big picture too. His big bone to pick is not with Lavolpe but rather the suits in Mexico City at FEMEXFUT.

think of how they keep wrecking his team:

Posted from  United States

Two more things to consider:

1.the right coach needs to integrate the young players in and give them even more confidence to succeed.

2.Mexico is clearly (no offense) than half of the final 8 teams in the world cup quarterfinals as of right now. Luck or no luck. So it could be with just a few small tweaks we can become a semi-finalist quality side. If they mettle too much we could go down faster than even Menotti could have predicted. On the other hand, a gamble could land us in the final, and it could be a guy like Chucho but who knows. The thing about the Delatorre -Lavolpe regime is that if you stick with it you will qualify for 2010, no problem and make the round of 16 most likely. With a little luck we can get a better draw and do not have to go through Argentina and Germany.

Posted from  United States

I meant Mexico is CLEARLY BETTER THAN half of the quarterfinalists, as of right now.

Posted from  United States

I’m not sure if Lavolpe should stay or go but I definitely think his efforts should not go to waste. His decision making in the line-ups is my main complaint. I like most of you could not figure out why Castro and Guardado didn’t start every game. Nor can I figure out why he never started Kikin over Franco (my god, he was terrible!!!!!).
Where he did impress me was his cavalier attitude toward Argentina. Outside of the major powers like Brazil no team would have the nerve to go after the throat of such a strong competitor like Argentina.
I truly believe that the main thing that is missing is a finisher. It became a glaring truth seeing Bravo miss, time and time again. I know that sometimes the ball refuses to go in and that you always need a little luck. However, I don’t think that was the reason we failed to score so many times. From what I saw, we squandered too many scoring chances against Angola, Portugal, and Argentina. It angered me to see Portugal score on us when they never really controlled the game. Our defense is the best and its a shame we didn’t have a complimentary offense.

On a side note I’ve spoken to lots of soccer knowledgeable people who are not Mexico fans and EVERYONE has said the same thing… They had no clue Mexico was that good and that Argentina was not the better team that game. I also over heard two guys arguing about who was going to win the world cup at a soccer store(non-hispanics) and I found it somewhat comforting that they concluded that Maxi’s goal (brilliant as it was) was nothing but luck. They said if he had 50 tries he would not be able to make the same goal…it was a small consolation.

Posted from  United States

Well said man!

Posted from  United States

I don’t know about anybody else, but what I expected before the Cup happened. The Mexican team has many qualities, finishing is not one of them; also, the mental factor-although improving-is not all there yet. I have seen the same frustrating outcome since 1986, where we played better than Germany and lost on penalties…speaking of which, I think penalties illustrate the mentality of a team and thus explains one of Mexico’s basic problems.

Nevertheless, things are falling into place. We have several U-17 players developing in Europe after their fantastic performance. After the Confederations Cup and the Argentina game, there are strong rumors that at least six Mexicans will play in Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal and England. There are young prospects outside the U-17 champions (Corona, Landin, Guardado) that have great talent. And then we have Giovani Dos Santos: an exceptional player. As I said, things are falling into place and I truly believe that in South Africa we will have the strongest team we have ever had. Mexico is at a turning point….Mexico is on the brink.

Posted from  Mexico

What’s the next tournament that will allow some of the kids to take part in? Copa America?

Posted from  United States

Juegos Centroamericanos July/2006
PanAmerican games 2007
Gold Cup 2007
Copa America 2007
Olympic Games 2008
World Cup qualifiers

They’ll be busy, I can assure you that.

You missed the Fifa Youth (U-20) World Cup, which is right after the Copa America in 2007

Posted from  Australia

Thanks a lot fellas! I’m excited to see them play. I can really see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully next world cup we’ll have a handful of stars to talk about…not just Rafa.

Posted from  United States

This is what appears to be the final list for the team that will play later on this month in the Juegos Centroamericanos:

Édgar Andrade, César Villaluz, Sergio Arias, Omar Esparza, Christian Sánchez, Jorge Hernández, Patricio Araujo, Héctor Moreno, Adrián Aldrete, Julio César Domínguez, Daniel Aguirre, Hugo Ayala, Giovanni dos Santos, Andrés Guardado, Luis Landín, Ismael Valadez y José Luis Rodríguez.

The coach will be Chucho Ramirez.

Nice list indeed. I hope somebody airs their matches on TV.

Posted from  United States

Would love to see Guardado and Dos Santos playing together.

Posted from  Mexico