Rafa has date with history

I know this will sound like blasphemy, but in my opinion, Rafa is already the best Mexican player in soccer history, even over Hugo.

Think about it: He has been either champion or runner-up in different important events with no less than 4 different teams:

- Runner-up with a very young Atlas team
- Champion with Monaco
- Runner-up with Mexico in Copa America 2001
- Champion with Mexico in the Golden Cup 2003
- Champion Confederations Cup 1999
- Champion in La Liga with Barcelona twice
- At the very least, runner-up in the Champions league with Barcelona.

He did all of this with very different teams, with very different strengths, many of which have not a very strong reputation for being perennial winners (Monaco and Atlas). He was a starter in all of those teams.

Meanwhile, all of Hugo’s great accomplishment happened in teams that were already great to begin with, and has never achieved anything in less stellar teams (maybe with the exception of winning the goal scoring championship with Atletico de Madrid).

With the mexican team, what has Hugo done? 1 goal in a World Cup, and not being able to make it to Spain 82 against a very weak CONCACAF confederation (U.S. was not a big threat then).

The only reason why people think Hugo is so great is because being a striker is a flashy position. But I bet even I could have scored at least 10 goals in those Real Madrid teams of the 80s.

Agreed. Marquez is a top notch player. Total quality on the pitch. He’s the main reason Barca is my favorite team.

You’ve gone mad. Good for Rafa and good for Hugo. One should be careful not to enter the “player hating” which plagues mexican culture.

It is a silly comparison. Both will go down as greats, both worthy of it. Both will be considered the cream of their respective generations. Both are leaders that transcended their times.

In defense of Hugo, it should be noted that it was not his fault the mexican federation blew it by fielding overage players and therefore missed the 90′ world cup. They had a strong team that never got to show its stuff. In addition, it was not Hugo’s fault in USA 94′ that for some reason unbeknownst to logic, Mejia Baron did not make one substitution in 120 minutes of soccer in the dead of heat.

People should not cut the great mexican players down after the fact, it is not fair. argentinians do not do it and brazilians do not do it. That said, bravo rafa!

Posted from  United States

It’s hard for me to defend Hugo because I don’t think I have to. I agree with Rene that Hugo is held in higher regard because he was a striker, but it is apples and oranges. Let’s say they both merit the highest acclaim and respect.

In response to the 1994 debacle with Hugo…Mejia Baron broke his silence. He said. That he hesitated to put Hugo in for Galindo because he thought Hugo was a liability in penalty kicks. Oookaaay!

Posted from  Canada

Well… the one time Hugo was put in to kick a penalty kick in a World Cup he failed, and every time he played with the national team afterwards, he had someone else kick it.

That is the thing about Hugo that I hate, it is always about him looking good. He never cared for the team. I still recall how he forced America to dismiss Antonio Carlos Santos, the best player America had in the late 80s and early 90s because he married Hugo’s ex-wife.

He almost got Beenhakker fired from Real Madrid because he dared bench him when it was obvious he was past his prime.

And how about the constant sniping towards Lavolpe since the day he was hired? Remember how it got worse the closest Mexico was from qualifying? The guy obviously wanted the manage the team just for the World Cup.

I’m sorry but the guy is a first class jerk, who never did anything at the national level. I don’t root for jerks.

You know, I have a lot of cheeks when it comes to Hugo, and I have turned a lot of them when it comes to his behaviour. I have a friend who used to work for TV in Monterrey and he hated Hugo because he said Hugo thought of himself as a god.

But enough about Hugo. He is a former player. Let’s celebrate the accomplishments of our current players — like Rafa who completely stoned Milan today.

Posted from  United States

Again, it’s best to let Hugo rest in peace and celebrate the accomplishments of the current generation of players, who in part, no doubt had Hugo posters on there walls as most kids did.

Once certainty, is there is a lot of hearsay regarding Hugo. His accomplishments were well earned on the field. Maradona has a sketchy past and for that matter so do a lot of footballers but in mexican culture it seems to be carte blanche to attack people and minimize their accomplishments and that is not fair. Not many people lambast Maradona for his embarrasing expulsion from USA 94′ for coke or whatever substance he tested positive for, or from being expelled from Europe and failing miserably towards the end (just like Hugo) in Argentina in part from being a drug addict. People respect Maradona as whacky as he sounds sometimes.

As far as Hugo having an easier go of it because he was a striker on a great team is rubbish. The guy scored the most amazing goals I have ever seen scored by anybody of any cultural background. His patented scissor kicks or chilenas on a counteratack are glorious. Defenders tried to muscle him but couldn’t. He acrobatic almost.

While not humble and not a great penalty kick taker, this is not some characteristic of only Hugo. The following players have missed crucial PK’s in world cups: Baggio USA 94, Zico Mexico 86′, Beckham Euro 2000?, Platini Mexico 84′.

As for Rafa, the guy is flat out awesome. Michoacan rules!

Posted from  United States

There is one big difference:

Maradona excelled when he played for Argentina and took them to two World Cup finals almost singlehandedly and won one. He tested positive for Ephedrine in 94, which was common in cold medication at the time, which is exactly what he was “using”. And did I tell you he was the reason why Argentina won a World Cup?

Hugo scored a goal with the national team. That is his BIG achievement. I find it off that you don’t want Hugo mentioned, since the thread starts with the following “Hugo Sanchez set a very high standard for Mexican players to follow in his tenure in Europe. But one accomplishment eluded him in his illustrious carreer: the Champions cup.”

You still do not address why mexican culture relishes knocking down their own. The english worship Shearer and Gazza. For some odd reason, it is mexican insecurity to cry and claim he did not do this and did not do that.

Posted from  United States

Are you kidding me?

There was a good chunk of the fandom and newspapers in England that were hounding Gazza between 1994 and 1998. I don’t know where you get your information but I know for a fact that many people cheered the decision taken by Glen Hoddle to not take him for the 1998 World Cup and take a chance on a then unknown teen called Michael Owen instead.

And again… Gazza was a big piece of the puzzle in that Semi-final appearance of England in 1990. Hugo just had one goal.

You fail to see the point: I knock Hugo down because he would let Mexico down when it mattered, and then blamed others for it, not because he was a wonderful striker with Real Madrid.

Marquez, whenever he did something silly, like getting himself sent off after knocking down Coby Jones, at least had the cojonoes to admit he was at fault, and never blamed the lack of spirit and concentration the WHOLE team had that day. That would be something Hugo would say.

If the person was Blanco for example, I would cheer for him even if he has a very questionable past, just because when it has mattered, the guy has delivered. He was the reason why Mexico made it to the 2002 WC and he was the main reason we won the Confederations Cup in 1999 (he was the top scorer alongside Ronaldinho).

To me, the greatness of a football player comes with their achievements both with the club AND their national team. Hugo was not that great. He was spectacular maybe, but not THAT good.

If you’ve ever spent time in europe, the only respected and known mexican player until Rafa el “Zamorano Michoacano” as they call him, has been and is Hugo. End of story. Need proof, in germany this summer, ask people.

Your not alone pal, mexico is full of “haters”. In fact, while you may not be one of them, there are many haters right now minimizing Rafa’s accomplishments, saying he only plays defense; and happpens to play on the best team with the best players in the world and, then there is this tidbit:

people say he has never done anything with the national team, and has sabotaged them more than helped them with his ejections and injuries. Unbelievable, but true, there are many haters in mexican culture.

Malinchismo hard at work.

Posted from  United States

I would like to offer some other instances where Hugo did help the National team.

1993 - Canada– Hugo socres the game winner to propel Mexico into the world cup for the first time in 8 years.

1993 - Ecuador — Hugo’s goal helps defeat Ecuador 2-0 in the semi finals of the first copa america appearance for Mexico.

I still smarts that the femexfut were dumb enough to get Mexico expelled from the 1990 world cup. It would have been Hugo’s finest hour.

Posted from  United States

You are using the word Malinchismo incorrectly. Malinchismo means prefering somthing foreign istead of something national. Not being a fan of Hugo and questioning his so-called greatness does not make me a malinchista.

Rene is right. The term you might be looking for is cangrejo, you know the jaiba theory. And please let us not use cangrejo or malinche on this site ever again.

Posted from  United States

The word was used in the appropriate context.

Posted from  United States

For those of you that read spanish this is a short part of a recent article on “Kikin”, and his thoughts on mexico and mexican cultural social and mental constructs.

Quiere ‘Kikín’ Fonseca que México sea campeón

por: Agencia
Fuente: NOTIMEX

Fonseca también recriminó que al Tricolor en algún momento lo calificaran como “los ratones verdes” por su desempeño en el terreno de juego y aseguró que todo eso ya cambió.

“Creo ya ha pasado mucho tiempo de que nosotros mismos nos menospreciemos, nosotros mismos a veces somos malinchistas, ahora eso ya ha cambiado, yo no soy así y mis compañeros piensan de la misma manera, creemos en nosotros mismos, podemos hacer grandes cosas”, dijo.

“Kikín” es de la idea de que si los propios ciudadanos de nuestro país no le tiene confianza a este grupo de jugadores que asegura darán lo mejor de si, entonces quién lo hará.

Posted from  United States

Again, for those who read Spanish, this iwhat Jorge Campos, who played with Hugo and also had him as a coach, has to say about him:

Por Graciela Reséndiz
ESPNdeportes.com

MÉXICO, D.F. — Está más que visto Jorge Campos seguirá protegiendo el entorno del técnico de la Selección Mexicana, Ricardo Lavolpe, en contra de quien se ponga enfrente.

A un mes de que el Tri compita en el Mundial de Alemania, el popular “Brody” le da con todo a Hugo Sánchez, a sabiendas de que es el enemigo número uno de Lavolpe, diga o no diga nada en este momento.

Él dice que habla a favor de la verdad. “Ya se está sabiendo todo; ya todos conocen lo que pasó en el Mundial de Estados Unidos 94 con los cambios; Miguel -mejía Barón- lo dijo. Vamos a hablar claro, pues”.

Hace unos días, en un programa de televisión Mejía Barón afirmó que en aquel famoso partido México-Bulgaria, cuando el Tricolor quedó eliminado de EU-94, a Hugo lo quería habilitar como volante, por Benjamín Galindo, pero que el “Pentapichichi” no quiso.

Por ello -dijo- optó por mantener el equipo que ya estaba en la cancha hasta el final, a sabiendas de que seguiría la tanda de penaltis, y en esta instancia no creyó pertinente considerar a Hugo.

“NO HACE GRUPO”
Aunque los ‘disparos’ del ex Pentapichichi no vayan en contra suya, afirma: “Hugo es un ídolo negativo”.

Dice que cuando el ex técnico de Pumas juega “es un buen tipo, es positivo”, pero que cuando está fuera de la cancha “es negativo”.

Así aprecia Jorge a Hugo, quien fue su entrenador en Pumas, cuando la relación entre ambos era ‘miel sobre hojuelas’.

“No hace grupo. Él nada más ve por sus intereses personales. Nunca le ha interesado la Selección”, fue contundente el acapulqueño, quien en su declive como jugador Hugo lo consideró el mejor segundo portero de México, y a Óscar el “Conejo” Pérez el primero.

QUE LE DABA MIEDO TIRAR PENALES
En su carrera, Hugo falló penaltis importante: uno en el partido México-Paraguay en el Mundial México 86 y uno más, pero éste sí muy importante, como jugador del Rayo Vallecano, pues por no haber aacertado esa pena máxima el equipo descendió a la Segunda División en la década de los noventa.

Jorge Campos no se queda a la zaga y afirma: “Hugo siempre tuvo miedo de tirar penales; eso lo pueden corroborar Raúl Servín, Rafael Amador, Tomás Boy -ex compañeros de Hugo en México 86-; pregúntenselo”.

Agrega el auxiliar de Lavolpe que Hugo tiene una imagen muy buena en el extranjero, porque triunfó en Europa, “pero nunca pudo hacer nada con la Selección, quién sabe por qué. Con el Tri no logró nada”.

Fafa was born at 1979 and he is 27!

Posted from  Russian Federation